The past few decades have taken a toll on the oceans: some fish populations are declining, plastic pollution is becoming increasingly severe, and climate change is causing coral bleaching and a host of other problems. But marine biologist and head of the World Economic Forum's Ocean Programme, Alfredo Giron, says there is room for hope in the seas. He is working on creating systems that governments and the fishing industry can use to ensure that fishing is legal and sustainable, so that the oceans thrive for years to come. In this episode on encore, he talks to host Aaron Scott about his work and how ocean management is closely tied to human management.

We spoke with Alfredo Giron about his research and thoughts, and this episode is not intended to reflect the position of the World Economic Forum.

Today's episode was produced by Thomas Lu and Rebecca Ramirez, edited by senior editor Gisele Grayson, and fact-checked by Brit Hanson. The sound engineer for this episode was Kwesi Lee. Our senior programming director is Beth Donovan. And our senior vice president of programming is Anya Grundmann.